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Imperia Unity Idea/Wishlist Thread

Discussion in 'Imperia Feedback' started by Texashawk, May 4, 2015.

  1. dirkgently

    dirkgently Lord of Statistics
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    Random thought - spell the Technics 'Techniks', with a K. It's punny, and therefore more plausible as a name.
     
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  2. Texashawk

    Texashawk Developer
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    I like it! We'll do it.

    -Steve

     
    #42
  3. dirkgently

    dirkgently Lord of Statistics
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    Something to think about for the background, which might affect gameplay: why, in the 31st century, do humans need to work? What social institutions keep humans necessary for production and prevents automation from displacing them, how do they do it, and why? How do they relate to the neo-feudal system? What led Exiled society to set them up and keep them running?

    This is a nice chance to play with some fantasy economics, Dune-style. Perhaps automation crushes demand because machines don't buy things, so it has to be held up by Luddite guilds. Perhaps the principal goods of the feudal system - heroism, fear, and knowing one has a vital place in society - simply cannot be provided by an automated system of production because it renders humans useless, which people know, leading them to support these guilds and hate automation. In gameplay terms, then, increases in economic efficiency might have to be traded off against stability problems and unemployment. The guilds might have their own characters and influence (if there aren't enough of those already). And so on. These are all just examples - the point is that nailing the fluff on this will help shape the economic mechanics and link up the different aspects of the game.
     
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  4. Travis

    Travis Community Manager

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    I think if we made a sequel, it'd be worth investigating the question of work (which is something I'm highly interested in as an economist). However, given that we're working off of the basis that technology has been set back in many ways due to war, I think it's safe to assume the technology for mass automation isn't available to make enough of a dent in the gameplay. Perhaps we could add it as a mechanic in the late-game that you can research and implement across the empire.
     
    #44
  5. dirkgently

    dirkgently Lord of Statistics
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    That doesn't quite work. The last war with the Xyl was centuries ago - technology has had plenty of time to far surpass what we have today. There needs to be a reason why it hasn't had the effects we might expect in order to make the world hang together properly. Whether that has gameplay implications or not is a separate question - although I've been proposing new mechanics left right and centre, there needn't be a new system for every piece of background. But having that sort of deep detail in the background means it can inform the design of things like the tech tree. It helps the whole game hang together more organically.
     
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  6. Travis

    Travis Community Manager

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    It could simply be tech that's held by the nobility and prevented from adoption by the masses? That's why FTL tech is very rare, after all.
     
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  7. dirkgently

    dirkgently Lord of Statistics
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    No, that doesn't hang together either - the masses aren't the ones who would transform society with it in any case. The nobility are the ones who control the means of production, so they would in today's circumstances use that automation tech left right and centre for their own profit, making workers obsolete. They need to have a convincing reason they don't. Otherwise the basic relationship between population and production the game assumes doesn't make any sense.

    It ought probably to sit at the confluence of many factors - a humanistic religion emphasising the work of human hands, a feudal system of values that prizes relationships of mastery over the products thereby provided, an economic doctrine which holds that automation is deadly dangerous to the economy as a whole, and perhaps an experience during one of the previous Xyl wars in which automated systems were taken over en masse by the Xyl. The Techniks and AIs might only be permitted on the grounds that they make humans technological or technology human, rather than being pure technology. Moreover, the player as emperor might have to crack down hard against renegade automators, lest their increased production allow them to overtake the Empire.

    POTENTIAL SPOILER ALERT FOR FUTURE PLAYERS

    Perhaps there is also a shadowy organisation spread throughout human space, dedicated to preventing automation. Perhaps it is only partially a human enterprise. Perhaps, in fact, the Xyl long ago faced this very same problem, and to ensure the survival of the species, undertook to eliminate any technological development that did not involve the bodily augmentation of XyLifeforms themselves. And perhaps in the shadow of the wars a strain of Xyl extended a kind of cooperation to certain humans with similar concerns in order to prevent the emergence of a hyperefficient robotic economy in human space. Perhaps this organisation, should it be discovered, presents both opportunity and grave threat to the Empire.
     
    #47
  8. dirkgently

    dirkgently Lord of Statistics
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    Really, the more I think about this the more implications it has. It suggests the nobility are going to want to show off their power over others, not merely their wealth; that the Techniks view augmentation as a road to greatness in particular, not merely utility; that the Church will have a powerful work ethic, and the Asceticists a kind of ruritanian back-to-the-land undertone. It implies that the central contested questions people argue and think about will be how best to achieve glory, and what kind of personal achievement is glorious - the underlying assumption of the value of glory and personal importance going unquestioned, dissent from it treated as contemptible, and the Xyl characterised by the characters as embodying the opposite - practically machines themselves, and all the more abhorrent for that reason. It implies that pure leisure and idleness will be held At the level of contempt in which the Spartans held it: as a fundamentally passive and machine-like, less-than-human activity. Which is not to say that it won't be widely indulged. Rather, the acceptable pastimes for the rich will be along the lines of hunting and jousting in the mediaeval era: pursuits that mix training exercise with play, often with more than a hint of danger. Podracing and gladiatorial combat would both have been highly acceptable here, if too hazardous for all but the boldest lords, but artistic-technical pursuits like the design of furniture or the production of perfume would also flatter the nobility's sense of intellectual superiority. We can expect them to be acutely aware of their own potential superfluity, and as a result to tend to engage heavily in management (or micromanagement). These are feudal nobles, but also CEOs of family monopolies and state franchises, and as such they will often want to project something of the Silicon Valley Renaissance man.
     
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  9. Travis

    Travis Community Manager

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    I think the reasoning isn't that hard to see. By maintaining work for the masses, you're ensuring that lords have power over them. If people's nobility fail to provide jobs for them, then discontent will inevitably follow. Slavery existed in the real world long after automation was cheaper, after all.
     
    #49
  10. dirkgently

    dirkgently Lord of Statistics
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    That works. It keeps the people busy, rather than giving them leisure time to become discontented in. An aristocratic system is, after all, ideal for maintaining a conspiracy against the public.

    You still need a society willing to take measures against nobles who break the anti-automation compact, though.
     
    #50
  11. dirkgently

    dirkgently Lord of Statistics
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    Hell, why not go for both? Having a solid idea of the culture of the Empire, the sorts of things its inhabitants get up to, how they think, and so on, can only help the game.
     
    #51
  12. Alejandro Zapata

    Alejandro Zapata Viceroy-in-Training

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    Hey guys, Very new to the game and forums. to reply to the question of combat there could be a middle ground between complete tactical control over every unit and total hands off management. there is a feature in the upcoming hearts of iron that allows you to plot a battle plan and then your units will execute them to the best of their abilities but none of the combat is controlled. this could be a solid way of allowing more player involvement in combat but at the same time not making it a total war style slog fest.

    anyway wanted to say love the concept of the game keep up the good work!

    some background on me:
    Industrial engineering student from NY
    favorite games:
    Europa universalis 4
    Victoria 2
    sins of a solar empire
     
    #52
  13. dirkgently

    dirkgently Lord of Statistics
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    Hi Alejandro! We've got a concept for the warfare system that we think is pretty unique, and should work really well with the politics-and-intrigue gameplay. It's on roughly the same sort of level as the HoI system, in that you're controlling the composition of forces, when they'll retreat, their supply lines, etc. rather than that combat itself, but it also has built-in opportunities for espionage and subterfuge. Watch this space!
     
    #53
    Alejandro Zapata likes this.
  14. Alejandro Zapata

    Alejandro Zapata Viceroy-in-Training

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    sounds great, any news when the next update is coming
     
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  15. dirkgently

    dirkgently Lord of Statistics
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    Well, the combat system won't be in the alphas for a while, but we'll be restarting alpha testing very soon! Give Steve a DM if you want in on that (if you aren't already).
     
    #55
  16. Texashawk

    Texashawk Developer
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    Welcome to the forums Alejandro! Your input is always welcome, and in fact needed. Combat is lower in the chain, but we'll do our best to do it right!

    -Steve
     
    #56

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